Live from Lincoln Center: Benny Safdie on The Curse's Episode 10
Watch the video or peruse the transcript for an intimate glimpse into Safdie's concluding insights and musings.
Ready for a deep dive into the intricate world of "The Curse" with the brilliant Benny Safdie? We were thrilled to be there on the scene last week and now FILC has shared the video from the event! In this video, filmed live at the iconic Lincoln Center, Safdie sits down with Film at Lincoln Center's Assistant Programmer, Maddie Whittle, to discuss the nuances and behind-the-scenes magic of episode 10 from his groundbreaking Showtime series. This NYFF61 Spotlight selection unwraps layers of American society through the lens of its compelling characters, Asher and Whitney Siegel, portrayed by the dynamic duo of Nathan Fielder and Emma Stone. With a plot that intricately weaves themes of race, class, and morality, the series offers a profound narrative that balances both heart and wit. Don't miss this rare opportunity to delve into the minds of the creators behind this genre-bending, audacious series. Watch the insightful conversation above, or if you can't right now, read the detailed transcript below. Learn more about the series and its making at Film at Lincoln Center.
Watch the video above or, if you cannot right now, read the transcript below.
Interviewer (Maddie Whittle): I have so many questions.
Benny Safdie: I know everyone does, so I'm gonna ask a few and then we're gonna open it up and try to get to everyone.
Maddie Whittle: Before we get to the sort of big questions, I want to start by asking about Rachel Ray and Big Pussy and how that scene came together.
Benny Safdie: Well, we always knew... let me just say from the beginning this was always the ending, so that allowed us certain...
Benny Safdie: I'll get to it later, but from the beginning we always knew it was going to be this and we always wanted there to be a time jump and basically we wanted it to feel as if their show had taken off, so we wanted to kind of have the audience experience a real-time segment on one of those shows and we were just lucky enough that Rachel Ray said yes and it was actually a pretty unbelievable thing to witness because we gave her all of the pointers about what it was that she needed to talk about, the things she needed to hit, they put it on the teleprompter and we used her crew and we just filmed a scene from her show and then we had to go back and trick her into doing it again because she's like "I did it, that was great" and then I'm like "oh we need a couple more stuff" she's like "I'm done" it was like "well maybe let's just try this little piece" and then we kind of... but she was unbelievable and it's like the fact is I think that that's such an unbelievable performance, you know, on her part because she really just treated everything that was happening as if it was a hundred percent real and on her show down to Josie's wifes which we invented the night before, so...
Maddie Whittle: Has she seen the show?
Benny Safdie: She has seen, I think she has seen this segment but I don't know if she's seen the show but her camera person told me that she's very busy.
Maddie Whittle: So you mentioned you knew from the start that this is how the series was going to end.
Benny Safdie: Yes.
Maddie Whittle: You were going to arrive at this endpoint. Could you sort of walk us through how you reverse-engineered that or I suppose just talk to us about how you came up with this ending, how you arrived at it?
Benny Safdie: Well, originally it was he floats away but very slowly and then practically speaking we're like "oh wouldn't it be more exciting if it was reverse gravity" and so then it was literally like you're falling off a cliff upwards and then that became the thing to try and chase and it's interesting because it's like okay I know that there's a lot of questions about why it happened I imagine, why him and we have reasons you know but it is very early in the kind of gestation of all this so the way that I'd like to leave it about that is like if you have if you have a drawer for example and there was no handle on the drawer how would you open it?
Benny Safdie: You know would you would you tip it forward so that the drawer falls out? Would you use a knife to get into the crack and open it? Maybe you'll take some tape and stick it to the front and then pull it out that way you know you'd come up with a lot of different ways to open that drawer and what you'd find inside is the same information but the way that you got that information was your own. If you put a handle on the drawer you just open it right up and you find your information so you lose a little bit of that process and that kind of searching which I think is important you know for this is and I do think that there is something strange in that you will be watching something and asking why did this happen?
Benny Safdie: Why did this thing that is clearly supernatural, why did this happen? How could it have happened? It had to have been this, it had to have been that you know you're trying to find reasons for it so it's not too dissimilar to what it would be like if you were actually there you know because that was something that was important to us is which is when you're faced with something like that how would you respond?
Benny Safdie: You know you see all of these people who talk about like seeing aliens or whatnot and they talk about it the same way that probably is not too dissimilar when Doug is talking to the cop you know but there is this element of conviction and you have to find reason and you need to understand it and I think that in the process to trying to understand it you understand more so.
Maddie Whittle: So it was always your intention to sort of insert this surrealist or supernatural or inexplicable in material terms element.
Benny Safdie: It always seemed like the right ending you know it just seemed right it didn't it only helped us that when we were shooting this this happened so we just were working with what we had.
Maddie Whittle: So those actors at the end, they were they were just watching yeah they were like I can't even believe what's going on right here.
Benny Safdie: I think that this sort of juxtaposition of the surreal surrealism and the very sort of immediate emotional realism of how everyone experiences this moment it contributes both to the comedy and to the horror kind of of this scenario and the entire episode kind of walks that line between being terrifying and being hilarious and it comes down to the choreography of the way you stage Asher on the ceiling of the bedroom and the way you know they get him out of the house and so I'm just curious if you could talk about that process.
Benny Safdie: Yeah that's a great question because I think when we originally pitched it to Showtime they were like oh that's funny you know like they thought it was just a joke and then we're like no we're serious and we're gonna take this very seriously so I think it wasn't until they saw the dailies that and I think it was specifically Asher screaming for his life Dougie Dougie you know like there it literally is like I think that we took it seriously you know we tried to treat it as if the characters were experiencing this as it happened and and part of that was well what would we do in that instance your brain wouldn't immediately go to oh that's that's something supernatural no of course not you know that's just not how we're wired you know I don't think how many of you here believe in supernatural things or events there you go it's like there's like five people so it's like you'd be very prepared but if you aren't you try to figure out and problem-solve and so by approaching I think there's something interesting about by approaching something like this from realism it does do something interesting to your viewing because it is funny because they're taking natural and kind of realistic steps in the face of something so insane but that's kind of how you stay grounded but yeah and just I could what I what what I will say is I'm willing to kind of be the the masked magician if you like tell you how we did it too that's of any interest but um hold on let me see if I can FaceTime Nathan let's see if he if he'll answer this will be embarrassing okay and then you all can tell him how you felt I know I think he just won't do it out of spite to make yeah no he's not Wow he's not gonna do it this is sad yeah he's missing out big-time no he is doing something else I don't think he's that he's able to do it but I'm gonna text him a mean message maybe he'll call me back we'll see and another thing let's get a hand for Katie Byron you know who is the production designer and constructed this whole thing you know it was really kind of crazy and I yeah it's I think when I when I said that the because we knew this was gonna happen from the beginning there were a lot of things that we could do to prepare ourselves one was their house had to have a massive tree in front of it it had to so every location we would look that from the beginning had to have a 300-foot tree you know that was just and that immediately just changed already was very difficult and that was one thing and then we also knew that what was going to happen in the bedroom was going to happen so we purposely shot all of those scenes on a stage from the beginning so from episode one on every bedroom scene you see is done on a stage because we knew that we'd have to reconstruct and build this second upside-down set as well and the thing that was the most amazing and why we cut in from the bathroom is the towels the upside-down towels were a sight a sight for anything I don't know they were a mate they literally were perfect and so we but we and we also had these it was almost like you see no strings kind of thing when he went when he goes under and he touches him or they put the net over the back or when he drops the when he's on the ceiling and he drops the vacuum we specifically added in all these things to try and make it almost impossible to see what's happening and to just understand like see it as real oh my god yeah that's and that was crazy and it's it's again it's it really was a lot of practical almost everything was like you're doing it you know and it was the first thing is like we both got up in the harness in the set just to see what was physically possible because I think the the other thing that I think was important was that the style of the show doesn't change just because there's a crazy stunt you know and that's what was the hardest thing to achieve was how do you get this stuff without changing camera angles and that's not easy so it was like it became like a real kind of dance to figure out how to really show it but not act like we're showing it if that makes sense so I think there's also kind of a physical comedy element to you know especially you know Whitney being pregnant and kind of on the floor and it's like way she moves through the house you're so right how I so I'm curious about your choice to sort of extend this this incident to fill the episode almost other than sort of the prelude at the beginning with Rachel Ray and the Shep Horton could you talk about sort of the mechanics of the episode and of the decision to make the entire episode this crisis of like what's happening yes I guess we deliberately wanted to withhold it for as long as we possibly could so that as you're watching the final you're just like I guess everything's okay you know they got their show on TV they're doing their thing you know and it's not okay but it's weird but like that's how they that's how they would get through their lives you know if nothing like this happened so it was really just kind of seeing the line that we could go and how the chairs start creaking at the right moment and then that happens and then really again it's it was just about the the real-time element of it was very important because like you said that does a lot to the comedy and the kind and the emotions of it and they're taking it seriously so we have to as an audience you know but when when Emma runs out when she feels the the air on her back and hits that tenor of pure fear it's like this only works if both her and Asher are afraid and I think that they're very scared in this and it's it really does when she does that it's at times frightening and hilarious because she wriggles out so quickly and then I think the ending is the very end with sort of Dougie having a breakdown and Whitney having just given birth and having this kind of beatific days over her was that sort of always how where you knew the characters would end up yes I could speak to both of them it was it was we always knew that Whitney would have this kind because she's always very you can't it's hard to see what she's thinking you know and I think in that moment at first you're like oh my god is she really sad is she crying and then it turns into this kind of laugh and then a tear of almost happiness and it's just such a complicated moment for her and then it was always gonna go to Dougie and having his realization but that the thing that was hard was we wrote into the script Dougie's totally fine and then bursts into tears it's like I'm like I could do that so and it was hard that was definitely hard and I did one time as hysterical and I guess the other actor oh there's Dave is he did he he answered you oh that's why hey here we go yeah I was gonna say you answer Dave hey everybody here's Nathan you can speak there we go I don't know where the speaker is exactly on the phone so hopefully you guys can hear it but okay I guess that's it I'll see you Nathan great stuff everyone all right I was upset that you answered Dave and not me but Dave amazing all right Nathan of course okay thanks for supporting this show and sticking with it and and coming to these things it's so great and I just appreciate it and Benny and I love you guys so much so thank you for doing this it's really great amazing there we go great stuff all right I'll talk to you later we're going Nathan thank you Dave yeah I forgot no I think that's a perfect segue is it a perfect segue yeah why don't we open it up to the audience I know we have some mics that will and mic runners who will bring the mics to you so I'm gonna call on people and if I call you keep your hand up and the mic will be with you shortly I see one hand very high right here yes in the white shirt so the moment that Dougie has that realization at the end from your perspective what's going through his mind is he having the sort of like holy shit like the curse is real like what have I done what's going through his head I think he feels very responsible for a lot of things and it hits him like a ton of bricks that I guess everybody he comes into contact with that he may have some positive relationship with and this is their fate and so he blames himself you know because he he kind of wanted something to happen and it's really just like a whole mess of him apologizing to everybody that he's ever done anything wrong to because what happened was just it really does affect him in such a deep sad way and it's almost incomprehensible I don't even know what I remember I don't even remember what I was saying I think I was like I'm sorry for everything I've ever done I think is what I said and it was just like I think is what I said, and it was just like this. There was a... it was really sad. It took me a long time to recover from that. But it's funny. Nathan, he told this story the other time where I was like, 'Okay, it's gonna be a little intense. I'm just gonna... I'm gonna need some time to get there. And then I'll kind of like... I'll touch my nose and wipe my nose when I'm ready.' So we waited for like 20 minutes, and it just... it was really hard because there was this fire truck, there was so much going on, it was really hard to get there. And eventually, like, you feel it, and then I touched my nose, and then we did it. And he's like, 'Yeah, so the other actor, he kind of jumped in a little too early, and we should do it again.' I'm like... And he's like, 'Can you do it again?' And I was just like, 'Yes, let's go.' It was just kind of an intense thing. But yeah, I think it's just overwhelming guilt for... he, what he doesn't know. And I think what's interesting about Dougie is he's maybe one of the only characters who actually shows that kind of true sadness. I don't know what that does to how you feel about him, you know. I think maybe it makes you like him a little bit more. I don't know if just... but he... because he can't help but hide it. And in that moment, he's trying, and that's why it comes out so much more intense.
Question: So, I was wondering, with this episode or is the series as a whole, during the editing or post-production process, if anything in particular sticks out to you that was unexpected, that came specifically through post that you didn't anticipate during production, if any moments like that stick out to you?
Benny Safdie: It's... I think what we realized was we could do something a lot more. Like, even though the pacing was that way, I think we deliberately paced it down while we were shooting, and then we paced it up, if you could believe that, in the edit. And so, I think the two things together is, once we realized, 'Okay, you can understand it with this amount,' we were able to really tune in that kind of tone. And then also, just the music was... was all post, you know. John Medesky, who did one of the most incredible scores, he never scored... he, that's not true, he scored to picture twice. One was this final sequence, and then I think another time was the... it was the oven, when they broke the oven. That was it. But other than that, he scored to emotion. So we just had this library of tracks that we had at our disposal, that whatever you put into the edit significantly changed how you watched the show. So it really was a lot of time going through and trying to find the right one that matched whatever it was it was supposed to be saying, because it wasn't always clear what the music is saying. And I think that it was just important to kind of find it, and not have it done... it felt more, I guess, organic to have it just placed at, based on what we were feeling, as opposed to like kind of a predetermined thing. But like, we got a folder of 100 tracks that were just like labeled 'positive ruminations,' you know. And it's amazing. I keyed, I think there's gonna be more releases with it, but it's just... it was an amazing kind of library of stuff. And then there's like a whole folder of 100 stings, because we were trying to find the right note for the title card.
Maddie Whittle: I see it right there.
Question: I was wondering if you had any insight on that moment when Whitney stares directly down the lens row, and she's on the table.
Benny Safdie: I actually just noticed that too, so I don't have much insight there. But I think she's just kind of... she's just searching, you know. And I think it's... it's most likely she doesn't know where the camera is. But I think she just happens to kind of find it by... and then you know. So she doesn't lock eyes with it because she doesn't see it. So she's just kind of like, she catches it for a second. But the guy in Ab shear's house, he saw it.
Question: Was there a specific choice to keep Whitney insulated from the fact that Asher is gone, or did it just kind of happen with the natural pacing of the episode? Because it's very clear that Whitney has insulated herself from a lot of the things that are happening to her. And then, kind of ironically, she is insulated from the fact that Asher is gone. Was there a specific choice?
Benny Safdie: Yeah, I think it's an interesting thing. It's when she enters the hospital, all she wants is everybody around her to help her. And at the end, she doesn't want anybody except her child. So something happened to her in that experience that she didn't even know was gonna happen. And I think that's kind of what that's about. But I think it was also just the idea that, like, we... it's hard, in this day and age, with cell phones and stuff, to actually have people separate and not know what's happening to one another. So in that sense, it was kind of like, it was this really... that she really wouldn't be able to know, you know, because she's in the middle of this whole procedure. There's nobody going in and talking to her in that moment. So she'll probably find out very soon after. But...
Maddie Whittle: I'm curious, did you already... did you always conceive the scene to take place simultaneously with her?
Benny Safdie: Yes, it was always gonna be this kind of back and forth where we're checking in on each person and how they're moving forward in it. But... and then again, yeah, we... it was always gonna be this kind of big motion of stuff. And that's why that... that music had to be a little bit more hands-on.
Maddie Whittle: I see a hand back in the upper...
Benny Safdie: Yep, with the hood on. Very descriptive. It's good.
Question: I was wondering, what relation does the floating camera at the very end have with the kind of candid recording throughout all ten episodes? Because I feel like those two things are connected in a very weird way.
Benny Safdie: Well, they're very different, you know. I think that's the important thing. There is... it's the first time it does that, and it's the only time it does that. And why it's... it... we have our reasons. I don't... it's like, it's... it's almost like something is free in that moment. So it made sense. I don't know what it is, but something kind of... there was a release of some kind, and it's like, it was like destabilized, you know. I feel like I'm walking on landmines up here.
Maddie Whittle: Gentle pass. I had a question more geared towards the family that they gave the house to, because I feel like the beginning of this series, to me, the whole interpretation of the curse was very with like their daughters. But now, seeing the ending, we feel like the curse is now more related to Dougie with Nathan. But I was just kind of wondering more on the context of that family, like if they were more of like a precursor to what the curse actually was, with like the chicken and everything, like if that's all like connected to how this ended, if that makes sense.
Benny Safdie: It does, it does make sense. I think it's connected in the sense that there are certain things that happened with how the characters reacted to that family, you know, that the feelings that were evoked there. And I think that that, it's funny because like somebody has a feeling there, but then when something else is actually happening, that thought isn't even in your head, you know. I so I think that that's what's important with those two things, is that when this is happening, they're just trying to problem-solve and figure it out. But in that instance, it's clear as day, you know. I don't know, cumulative effect.
Maddie Whittle: Yeah, yeah. Let's see, there's one in the sort of dead center of the room.
Benny Safdie: Yep.
Question: So, across all ten episodes, like what stood out to you the most? Where, I don't know, a couple years from now, you're gonna like still go back to those scenes. Are there any ones that you think really resonated out of you? I'm curious if you think Nathan or Emma have scenes that just like really got under your skin in a way.
Benny Safdie: Curious like, yeah, what's gonna send out. Well, I guess just this, and this whole ending bit was such an insane thing to do and try and figure out. Maceo Bishop is here, he's the cinematographer, and just trying to figure out how to shoot this was crazy because when we were upside down, we were still shooting through windows. And so, we still had to have that, we had to have the camera placement in the same quote-unquote placement as it was on the right side upset. So there was a lot of weird like geometry that we had to do, and it was just like, it was a crazy process of figuring that out. So just that alone is something I'll never kind of forget. But the other thing, I think it was just really funny, was the sweater scene, where the way that that played out as we were doing it became so much more than what it was, and it was still the same as it was in the in the script. But it got so much longer, and the way that the sweater comes off so fast the first time was really... and Nathan's reaction. I don't know, there's just a lot in that scene that I think, and then the argument afterwards was a big deal because that was the first time Nathan really went there, you know. And I think he was maybe a little bit uncomfortable going that crazy, but he hits it, you know. And it's, and it's really special in that way, and it's also funny and sad. I don't know, that one...
Benny Safdie: Um, I don't know, maybe six or seven something like that. But we did a lot of, we broke it up into different pieces because we had to, based on like where it was. And that was, that we were, that was actually a stunt we were very scared of, because it to pull... we would to pull on the head was very scary. And we were, it was just, we actually did a lot of pre, like as previews of that, on our own, to see how it would rip, and if it would actually take your, rip your hair out too. I don't know, but we did have to have... we had multiples of the sweaters. There were little tears here and there, and it was, it was also just a lot about physical acting on how to make it look like that, which was again also fun to try and figure out. But it was, at one point, it definitely was just not coming off, and we had to adjust it because her neck was just like...
Maddie Whittle: But, right there in the gray.
Question: Yeah, hey, how you both doing?
Benny Safdie: Very, very well, good.
Question: Good, good. I was just kind of curious, in working with Maceo, for you and Nathan, and the Zellner brothers, what was kind of the process for some of these really voyeuristic, super complex shots, where... where either it's the blocking or just the setup of the camera itself, like through doorways, or through windows, and through cars. Like, it's just very complex, and I'm wondering what was the process for setting some of those up?
Benny Safdie: Well, we would do the scene, and then figure out the hardest way to shoot it, is really it. Like, if it was too close, it was too close, and we would try and find further parts away. At one point, we were traveling around with a window that we could just put in front of the camera, and we dirty it up. I was always running up to windows, and like, because I'm greasy, so I'd like rub my face, and just like... right in front of the camera lens, just put all this grease in front of the... because sometimes you couldn't feel the glass, that was the problem. So it was like, so everybody would just look over, and they'd see me like this, and they knew the shot was getting great, you know. But yeah, it was basically just trying to figure out the furthest we could go. And then, you'd think that maybe it would make it easier, you know, nobody knows where the camera is or anything like that, but we found that it actually made it... you had to be very precise about where you ended up, and where you said your lines, because the... there was very little leeway, you know. If you stood one foot to the left, you'd be completely out of the shot. But then it was also like, we were okay with not seeing things, you know. And I think that was something that everybody kind of had to get used to, but things weren't gonna be seen, people's backs would be to the camera, and you'd get weird shots from up high, that that would be your other shot, and that's all you had. So it really was like, it was an exercise in, in that, in a lot of ways. So, look, yeah, the car stuff was actually done on a stage, which I think is pretty crazy. So, look, yeah, the car stuff was actually done on a stage, which I think is pretty crazy. But that was like, that was an intense build on its own, with two cars and lights, and it was crazy. But that one was a lot, again, like a lot of making it more difficult to kind of give you that feeling that we were following them or something.
Question: I was wondering if there's a lesson to the story, or if the lesson is just you can't escape your fate. Hasn't like your whole world could get turned upside down, if that's the lesson. You just can't escape the universe and what it brings, like however good or bad you are, you'll just end up in the same place.
Benny Safdie: Yeah, that... that's a valid, that is a valid theory. I could also say that you would, if you ever made it back from that, you would just, by human nature, question everything you did. 'Is this what I did to deserve this? What did I do to deserve this?' Or is it even bad, you know? Is it a bad thing? Because we're like, when Asher's going up, he sees something, you know? Could be the lack of oxygen, who knows? But there is this, this idea that like, these things... but again, like, yeah, that just, even the thought that this is possible, you know, is something that I think is, is crazy. But we wanted to try and make that seem like it is possible. And I guess, yeah, you can't escape your fate, but you can change yourself, and you can change things. And I think you can also ask the questions about just, yeah, what does it mean to be yourself, you know? And that kind of thing.
Maddie Whittle: Right here in the black shirt...
Question: I was wondering, the... and at least to me, kind of felt like becoming a parent, like this cosmic moment, and kind of juxtaposed with like HGTV being kind of this look at a family through a very... I don't know, intrusive lens. Could you talk a little more about the HGTV connection and becoming a family?
Benny Safdie: Yeah, there's... I think HGTV in particular puts a lot of weight on family, you know? And I think that it's... it's funny because I remembered watching 'Flip or Flop,' which is one of... one of the good ones, I guess, if... when you watch the early seasons, you know, like the first or second season, they have no kids. And you could... you kind of get a little bit of an idea of their relationship and what they are and who they are. But then, all of a sudden, one season, they have kids. Like, they're just there. And the scenes changed, everything changed. The whole... the beginning of one episode was literally, they were sitting at a table, and I think like Tarek brings over like all the breakfast, and he's like, 'How'd everybody... how about everybody do last night? Everybody have a good night?' And they're like, 'Yeah, yeah.' And I got a lot of work to do today, gotta tell you. And then she's like, 'Yeah, I was wondering, like, what are we gonna do with that house over on 44 Pine Street?' He's like, 'You know, that's a good question, you know. Like, let's finish up our meal here, and let's all go check it out.' And you realize, oh, this is all a ploy just to set up the fact that they're gonna go and look at this house and flip it. And yet, here they have their kids eating and like, in it. They're feeding them. It's all this stuff. And same thing with 'Fixer Upper.' I was watching a behind-the-scenes thing there, and they looked like a totally normal, like, confession to camera. And then they showed the behind-the-scenes, and she was flanked by like five children, just outside of the frame. And I thought, 'Oh my god, that must be so weird for those kids, you know?' And it is just, it's... it's strange what it says, because I think the deep down, all these shows want to be about like, the American dream. And I think that that fits into that, and they need that in there, a lot of the time. So, and then when it is the people who are the hosts, can't help but put that in, you know? That's part of it. And I think that that's probably why they're probably so excited about season two of 'Green Queen,' is because they're gonna have a little heir to the throne, you know? But I think we can take one more in here, and then we're gonna have to move out into the lobby, which I'm okay with. I see a hand right here.
Maddie Whittle: Oh, he's waving, yeah. That was a good move, sir.
Benny Safdie: It's got a big tip for everybody. If you want to get called on, high hand raise. And then when you think, even if you're not called, do the move. It's... I'm gonna use that. Good. You may.
Question: I want to get back... you opened this up with this metaphor about the drawer, the process of us as the viewers figuring it out, kind of a... you know, we all have to... making it a little difficult for us, not just giving us an easy answer. So, in that, with that in mind, I'd like to, you to address a little bit more about the camera as character. It's clear, very, very clear that this was a strong choice, that in our experience just watching episode 9, was it last night, we had this long conversation afterwards about camp camera as character, and how it helped develop this sense of horror, this mundane horror, that... that comes from these simple things, like trauma, inadequacies, and all these things. So that is... you've made something very mundane, very horrifying, culminating in this final episode of absolute craziness. So, I would love it if you would, would talk a little bit more about camera as character here.
Benny Safdie: Yeah, I think the... just from the beginning, it was always like, 'Okay, how can we show the real of the world?' You know, because there was always going to be the show that they make, and that was going to feel a very specific way. It's 4k, you know, like hyper, hyper crisp and clear image. And how to justify and change and show you the real world, you know, in that sense. And part of the distinction was, 'Okay, if we can feel where the cameras are, and then we can see them, like, then that adds to that layer of okay, I shouldn't be here watching this, and yet I am, and I'm feeling it.' And I do think that it is... there is this element of us and the town watching this stuff happen, you know, and watching these people and trying to understand these people. So we're almost in it together as we're seeing them, and they don't know that we're seeing them. And they think that they're hiding certain things, but deep down, it's like, it's we're always gonna catch it, you know. And I think that it really was just this idea to just put you in a similar position as like if you were in that town watching these people, you know, and their private moments. So, but it definitely was a conscious decision, you know, to try and get you to feel those things in a greater way. And okay, great. And yeah, and I, it's definitely is like, I don't know, we, there was this, we, we definitely had a lot, and never mind.
Maddie Whittle: Well, I think we should keep the conversation going outside.
Benny Safdie: Yes, thank you all for being with us. And thank you, Benny. I am so... this is like, this... wait, quickly. I think we have two other people. We have Dave McCary here, and then we have my brother Josh, was here, or he was... oh, there he is. But really, everybody, this has been like 10 weeks or whatever it's been, an insane thing. I really can't thank you more, from the bottom of my heart, for being here and being as excited and doing this together. I'll never forget it, and hopefully, we can do it again. So, thank you.